Discussion:
[Pdweb] [PD] Editing CSS style, make pd.info better? [WAS: puredata.info site design provocation]
András Murányi
2012-03-11 23:20:47 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 11:42, Nicolas Montgermont <
Hello marco and all,
maybe that discussion should go on the pdweb list, no ? otherwise i don't
know what it is made for...
so i am moving it to pdweb

[...]
comments in the mail
when you click "development" you mean? This can be normally easily changed
but if Iohannes has done that there must be a reason.
Yes sorry I meant "development",

I'll reply to the other things in a new mail...

Andr?s
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András Murányi
2012-03-11 23:51:48 UTC
Permalink
...moving to pdweb
yes i have to admit i'm starting to judge the relevancy of a website at
least in part with design modernity. was just looking at various open
source 3D gaming engines and i could instantly tell the 2003-2007 era from
the 2008-2012 era. i still investigated what each site had to offer, but
graphic presentation added to the friendliness/accessibility factor. sites
like the current Processing site and Openframeworks.cc seem cleaner and
easier to both attract users and navigate.
overall an excellent beginning to a new look! it started me thinking about
possible further improvements. so consider this a design brainstorm thingy
with NO obligation that anyone has to do what i'm suggesting (especially
Marco who started the ball rolling). i don't have any time to do it at the
moment (i'm avoiding grading right now) but it certainly gives me ideas, so
Navigation
i'm not pushing this but it seems like side based navigation is sort of
less common on modern websites? the look is pretty modern and clean
however. Processing (2 columns) and Ofx (2 or 3 - not sure) both use top
navigation which i think draws the eye better. i resisted top nav for a
while but i think it relates better to subject matter. bigger more graphic
pictures on the front page of various projects i think will attract more
attention to the artistic aspects. a better top banner is a MUST.
I think the current header of sub pages is perfectly light now and only the
main page needs a banner-like thing (carousel or...)
Exhibition page
should definitely be overhauled with a much more graphic look whenever
possible. Marco's Xth-Sense, Billy's Helmholtz ship animation any other
graphic demonstrations of PD in action in realtime either audio wise or
using video manipulation ala Gem or whatever should be there in plain view,
not just a link to someone's website. No idea if Plone can do graphic grid
placement of thumbnails for videos but that's what comes to mind. i'm not
against a carousel video thing, but i think it's a consideration for future
design.
if it's just a patch processing audio, i don't know, maybe some audio
examples of the patch via a jquery-type player onscreen?
I'd suggest a screenshot of the patch itself... it's healthy and
interesting if some of the pictures are not resulting visuals but actual
patches.
the idea is to get folks interested equally in what PD can do as well as
finding out more information about the artist if they are so inclined.
Downloads and Distributions - separate categories
at the moment if i wanted to find out what PD-vanilla or PD-extended was,
i'd have to go to the Downloads page. i'm not sure if that's intuitive
enough. if i wanted to find out what a distribution was about versus
downloading it, i'm not sure if i'd go to Downloads.
so maybe something labeled Distributions? then put PD-vanilla,
PD-extended, and something like l2ork there? i see a huge amount of talk on
the list from Ivo about his version and some of it's benefits. i think it
should be listed there. there should be Download links of course as well.
Such a page might also be called 'About PD', give a brief
history/description of how PD itself works and then the other variants
listed below with download links?
I couldn't judge if this needs to be done, but if yes, then it's one more
reason to have an "About Pd" or "What is Pd" page.
[...]
Andr?s
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IOhannes m zmoelnig
2012-03-12 09:00:41 UTC
Permalink
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Post by András Murányi
Yes sorry I meant "development",
I'll reply to the other things in a new mail...
sorry, that was a change where my internet connection broke before i
could thoroughly test it...

i changed the name of the FrontPage to DevelopmentWiki, which i think is
a nicer header than "FrontPage", and created a compat page for the old
FrontPage.
obviously it still displayed the old (compat) FrontPage when clicking on
"development", rather than the new page.
should be fixed now.

fmasdr
IOhannes
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Hans-Christoph Steiner
2012-03-12 14:23:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by IOhannes m zmoelnig
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Post by András Murányi
Yes sorry I meant "development",
I'll reply to the other things in a new mail...
sorry, that was a change where my internet connection broke before i
could thoroughly test it...
i changed the name of the FrontPage to DevelopmentWiki, which i think is
a nicer header than "FrontPage", and created a compat page for the old
FrontPage.
obviously it still displayed the old (compat) FrontPage when clicking on
"development", rather than the new page.
should be fixed now.
I've had problems with doing that in the past, so I've stopped doing it altogether and reverted the pages to FrontPage. Basically, when the page gets edited, then a copy of the page gets created that is called FrontPage, so there will then be a DevelopmentWiki and a FrontPage page. This is obviously not a good thing. So unless you've specifically addressed that issue, or tested a lot to make sure it does not happen ever, I think its a good idea to keep the pages called FrontPage, annoying as it is. Perhaps upgrading Plone would fix this?

.hc


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Making boring techno music is really easy with modern tools, but with live coding, boring techno is much harder." - Chris McCormick
Nicolas Montgermont
2012-03-13 06:14:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hans-Christoph Steiner
I've had problems with doing that in the past, so I've stopped doing
it altogether and reverted the pages to FrontPage. Basically, when the
page gets edited, then a copy of the page gets created that is called
FrontPage, so there will then be a DevelopmentWiki and a FrontPage page.
Does it only happen with wiki pages?
Most of the modifications i've done in the community section are based
on using a "webpage" instead of a wiki "Frontpage". And at the moment I
think there is no problem.
Maybe if there is already a Frontpage it doesn't recreate one?
Post by Hans-Christoph Steiner
This is obviously not a good thing.
As long as it is displaying the good element for the folder, I see no
problem?
Post by Hans-Christoph Steiner
So unless you've specifically addressed that issue, or tested a lot to
make sure it does not happen ever, I think its a good idea to keep the
pages called FrontPage, annoying as it is. Perhaps upgrading Plone
would fix this? .hc
n
--
http://nim.on.free.fr
Scott R. Looney
2012-03-13 06:17:41 UTC
Permalink
anyone know what version of Plone are we using on pdinfo?

scott

On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 11:14 PM, Nicolas Montgermont <
Post by Nicolas Montgermont
Post by Hans-Christoph Steiner
I've had problems with doing that in the past, so I've stopped doing it
altogether and reverted the pages to FrontPage. Basically, when the page
gets edited, then a copy of the page gets created that is called FrontPage,
so there will then be a DevelopmentWiki and a FrontPage page.
Does it only happen with wiki pages?
Most of the modifications i've done in the community section are based on
using a "webpage" instead of a wiki "Frontpage". And at the moment I think
there is no problem.
Maybe if there is already a Frontpage it doesn't recreate one?
Post by Hans-Christoph Steiner
This is obviously not a good thing.
As long as it is displaying the good element for the folder, I see no
problem?
Post by Hans-Christoph Steiner
So unless you've specifically addressed that issue, or tested a lot to
make sure it does not happen ever, I think its a good idea to keep the
pages called FrontPage, annoying as it is. Perhaps upgrading Plone would
fix this? .hc
n
--
http://nim.on.free.fr
______________________________**_________________
Pdweb mailing list
Pdweb at iem.at
http://lists.puredata.info/**listinfo/pdweb<http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pdweb>
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Hans-Christoph Steiner
2012-03-14 20:48:11 UTC
Permalink
my memory tells me 2.1, but I could be wrong.

.hc
Post by Scott R. Looney
anyone know what version of Plone are we using on pdinfo?
scott
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 11:14 PM, Nicolas Montgermont <
Post by Nicolas Montgermont
Post by Hans-Christoph Steiner
I've had problems with doing that in the past, so I've stopped doing it
altogether and reverted the pages to FrontPage. Basically, when the page
gets edited, then a copy of the page gets created that is called FrontPage,
so there will then be a DevelopmentWiki and a FrontPage page.
Does it only happen with wiki pages?
Most of the modifications i've done in the community section are based on
using a "webpage" instead of a wiki "Frontpage". And at the moment I think
there is no problem.
Maybe if there is already a Frontpage it doesn't recreate one?
Post by Hans-Christoph Steiner
This is obviously not a good thing.
As long as it is displaying the good element for the folder, I see no
problem?
Post by Hans-Christoph Steiner
So unless you've specifically addressed that issue, or tested a lot to
make sure it does not happen ever, I think its a good idea to keep the
pages called FrontPage, annoying as it is. Perhaps upgrading Plone would
fix this? .hc
n
--
http://nim.on.free.fr
______________________________**_________________
Pdweb mailing list
Pdweb at iem.at
http://lists.puredata.info/**listinfo/pdweb<http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pdweb>
_______________________________________________
Pdweb mailing list
Pdweb at iem.at
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pdweb
Hans-Christoph Steiner
2012-03-14 20:49:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nicolas Montgermont
Post by Hans-Christoph Steiner
I've had problems with doing that in the past, so I've stopped doing
it altogether and reverted the pages to FrontPage. Basically, when the
page gets edited, then a copy of the page gets created that is called
FrontPage, so there will then be a DevelopmentWiki and a FrontPage page.
Does it only happen with wiki pages?
Most of the modifications i've done in the community section are based
on using a "webpage" instead of a wiki "Frontpage". And at the moment I
think there is no problem.
Maybe if there is already a Frontpage it doesn't recreate one?
Post by Hans-Christoph Steiner
This is obviously not a good thing.
As long as it is displaying the good element for the folder, I see no
problem?
Post by Hans-Christoph Steiner
So unless you've specifically addressed that issue, or tested a lot to
make sure it does not happen ever, I think its a good idea to keep the
pages called FrontPage, annoying as it is. Perhaps upgrading Plone
would fix this? .hc
n
A plone upgrade is worth trying. I think that webpages had a similar
issue but with the index_html name.

.hc
Scott R. Looney
2012-03-14 21:54:34 UTC
Permalink
be very aware of using older plone code with newer versions of code -
skimming the plone site it seems they like to change the names of parts of
their site structure with different major upgrades. what i have seen is
mainly nomenclature related but if they were to use the name in any
template code there could be issues translating.

note i'm generally not referring to content here - as long as the SQL
database field names don't change the data should be fine, but it would be
useful if migration from Plone 2.1.4 to 4.X could be researched before
attempting it.

scott
Post by Hans-Christoph Steiner
Post by Nicolas Montgermont
Post by Hans-Christoph Steiner
I've had problems with doing that in the past, so I've stopped doing
it altogether and reverted the pages to FrontPage. Basically, when the
page gets edited, then a copy of the page gets created that is called
FrontPage, so there will then be a DevelopmentWiki and a FrontPage
page.
Post by Nicolas Montgermont
Does it only happen with wiki pages?
Most of the modifications i've done in the community section are based
on using a "webpage" instead of a wiki "Frontpage". And at the moment I
think there is no problem.
Maybe if there is already a Frontpage it doesn't recreate one?
Post by Hans-Christoph Steiner
This is obviously not a good thing.
As long as it is displaying the good element for the folder, I see no
problem?
Post by Hans-Christoph Steiner
So unless you've specifically addressed that issue, or tested a lot to
make sure it does not happen ever, I think its a good idea to keep the
pages called FrontPage, annoying as it is. Perhaps upgrading Plone
would fix this? .hc
n
A plone upgrade is worth trying. I think that webpages had a similar
issue but with the index_html name.
.hc
_______________________________________________
Pdweb mailing list
Pdweb at iem.at
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pdweb
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András Murányi
2012-03-13 00:59:40 UTC
Permalink
yes i have to admit i'm starting to judge the relevancy of a website at
least in part with design modernity. was just looking at various open
source 3D gaming engines and i could instantly tell the 2003-2007 era from
the 2008-2012 era. i still investigated what each site had to offer, but
graphic presentation added to the friendliness/accessibility factor. sites
like the current Processing site and Openframeworks.cc seem cleaner and
easier to both attract users and navigate.
overall an excellent beginning to a new look! it started me thinking
about possible further improvements. so consider this a design brainstorm
thingy with NO obligation that anyone has to do what i'm suggesting
(especially Marco who started the ball rolling). i don't have any time to
do it at the moment (i'm avoiding grading right now) but it certainly gives
Navigation
i'm not pushing this but it seems like side based navigation is sort of
less common on modern websites? the look is pretty modern and clean
however. Processing (2 columns) and Ofx (2 or 3 - not sure) both use top
navigation which i think draws the eye better. i resisted top nav for a
while but i think it relates better to subject matter. bigger more graphic
pictures on the front page of various projects i think will attract more
attention to the artistic aspects. a better top banner is a MUST.
Exhibition page
should definitely be overhauled with a much more graphic look whenever
possible. Marco's Xth-Sense, Billy's Helmholtz ship animation any other
graphic demonstrations of PD in action in realtime either audio wise or
using video manipulation ala Gem or whatever should be there in plain view,
not just a link to someone's website. No idea if Plone can do graphic grid
placement of thumbnails for videos but that's what comes to mind. i'm not
against a carousel video thing, but i think it's a consideration for future
design.
if it's just a patch processing audio, i don't know, maybe some audio
examples of the patch via a jquery-type player onscreen? the idea is to get
folks interested equally in what PD can do as well as finding out more
information about the artist if they are so inclined.
Sounds like good ideas. If you think those projects should be on the
http://puredata.info/docs/sitedocs/AddingToTheExhibition
The only rule is that you can't put projects in the exhibition that you
had something to do with (no self-promotion).
Downloads and Distributions - separate categories
at the moment if i wanted to find out what PD-vanilla or PD-extended
was, i'd have to go to the Downloads page. i'm not sure if that's intuitive
enough. if i wanted to find out what a distribution was about versus
downloading it, i'm not sure if i'd go to Downloads.
so maybe something labeled Distributions? then put PD-vanilla,
PD-extended, and something like l2ork there? i see a huge amount of talk on
the list from Ivo about his version and some of it's benefits. i think it
should be listed there. there should be Download links of course as well.
Such a page might also be called 'About PD', give a brief
history/description of how PD itself works and then the other variants
listed below with download links?
One of the download sections is labels "distros". Not good enough?
.hc
Wouldn't l2ork belong there? If yes, is it technically possible to have it
updated there?

Andr?s
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Hans-Christoph Steiner
2012-03-13 02:31:56 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 04:20, Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at
yes i have to admit i'm starting to judge the relevancy of a
website at least in part with design modernity. was just looking
at various open source 3D gaming engines and i could instantly
tell the 2003-2007 era from the 2008-2012 era. i still
investigated what each site had to offer, but graphic presentation
added to the friendliness/accessibility factor. sites like the
current Processing site and Openframeworks.cc seem cleaner and
easier to both attract users and navigate.
overall an excellent beginning to a new look! it started me
thinking about possible further improvements. so consider this a
design brainstorm thingy with NO obligation that anyone has to do
what i'm suggesting (especially Marco who started the ball
rolling). i don't have any time to do it at the moment (i'm
avoiding grading right now) but it certainly gives me ideas, so
Navigation
i'm not pushing this but it seems like side based navigation is
sort of less common on modern websites? the look is pretty modern
and clean however. Processing (2 columns) and Ofx (2 or 3 - not
sure) both use top navigation which i think draws the eye better.
i resisted top nav for a while but i think it relates better to
subject matter. bigger more graphic pictures on the front page of
various projects i think will attract more attention to the
artistic aspects. a better top banner is a MUST.
Exhibition page
should definitely be overhauled with a much more graphic look
whenever possible. Marco's Xth-Sense, Billy's Helmholtz ship
animation any other graphic demonstrations of PD in action in
realtime either audio wise or using video manipulation ala Gem or
whatever should be there in plain view, not just a link to
someone's website. No idea if Plone can do graphic grid placement
of thumbnails for videos but that's what comes to mind. i'm not
against a carousel video thing, but i think it's a consideration
for future design.
if it's just a patch processing audio, i don't know, maybe some
audio examples of the patch via a jquery-type player onscreen? the
idea is to get folks interested equally in what PD can do as well
as finding out more information about the artist if they are so
inclined.
Sounds like good ideas. If you think those projects should be on
http://puredata.info/docs/sitedocs/AddingToTheExhibition
The only rule is that you can't put projects in the exhibition
that you had something to do with (no self-promotion).
Downloads and Distributions - separate categories
at the moment if i wanted to find out what PD-vanilla or
PD-extended was, i'd have to go to the Downloads page. i'm not
sure if that's intuitive enough. if i wanted to find out what a
distribution was about versus downloading it, i'm not sure if i'd
go to Downloads.
so maybe something labeled Distributions? then put PD-vanilla,
PD-extended, and something like l2ork there? i see a huge amount
of talk on the list from Ivo about his version and some of it's
benefits. i think it should be listed there. there should be
Download links of course as well.
Such a page might also be called 'About PD', give a brief
history/description of how PD itself works and then the other
variants listed below with download links?
One of the download sections is labels "distros". Not good enough?
.hc
Wouldn't l2ork belong there? If yes, is it technically possible to
have it updated there?
I agree, someone just needs to actually add it :)

.hc
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András Murányi
2012-03-14 20:58:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by András Murányi
yes i have to admit i'm starting to judge the relevancy of a website at
least in part with design modernity. was just looking at various open
source 3D gaming engines and i could instantly tell the 2003-2007 era from
the 2008-2012 era. i still investigated what each site had to offer, but
graphic presentation added to the friendliness/accessibility factor. sites
like the current Processing site and Openframeworks.cc seem cleaner and
easier to both attract users and navigate.
overall an excellent beginning to a new look! it started me thinking
about possible further improvements. so consider this a design brainstorm
thingy with NO obligation that anyone has to do what i'm suggesting
(especially Marco who started the ball rolling). i don't have any time to
do it at the moment (i'm avoiding grading right now) but it certainly gives
Navigation
i'm not pushing this but it seems like side based navigation is sort of
less common on modern websites? the look is pretty modern and clean
however. Processing (2 columns) and Ofx (2 or 3 - not sure) both use top
navigation which i think draws the eye better. i resisted top nav for a
while but i think it relates better to subject matter. bigger more graphic
pictures on the front page of various projects i think will attract more
attention to the artistic aspects. a better top banner is a MUST.
Exhibition page
should definitely be overhauled with a much more graphic look whenever
possible. Marco's Xth-Sense, Billy's Helmholtz ship animation any other
graphic demonstrations of PD in action in realtime either audio wise or
using video manipulation ala Gem or whatever should be there in plain view,
not just a link to someone's website. No idea if Plone can do graphic grid
placement of thumbnails for videos but that's what comes to mind. i'm not
against a carousel video thing, but i think it's a consideration for future
design.
if it's just a patch processing audio, i don't know, maybe some audio
examples of the patch via a jquery-type player onscreen? the idea is to get
folks interested equally in what PD can do as well as finding out more
information about the artist if they are so inclined.
Sounds like good ideas. If you think those projects should be on the
http://puredata.info/docs/sitedocs/AddingToTheExhibition
The only rule is that you can't put projects in the exhibition that you
had something to do with (no self-promotion).
Downloads and Distributions - separate categories
at the moment if i wanted to find out what PD-vanilla or PD-extended
was, i'd have to go to the Downloads page. i'm not sure if that's intuitive
enough. if i wanted to find out what a distribution was about versus
downloading it, i'm not sure if i'd go to Downloads.
so maybe something labeled Distributions? then put PD-vanilla,
PD-extended, and something like l2ork there? i see a huge amount of talk on
the list from Ivo about his version and some of it's benefits. i think it
should be listed there. there should be Download links of course as well.
Such a page might also be called 'About PD', give a brief
history/description of how PD itself works and then the other variants
listed below with download links?
One of the download sections is labels "distros". Not good enough?
.hc
Wouldn't l2ork belong there? If yes, is it technically possible to have it
updated there?
I agree, someone just needs to actually add it :)
.hc
Cool! :)

Andr?s
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